A powerful look into religious trauma, disfellowshipping, and the emotional cost of excommunication from high-control faiths.
This episode reveals a raw and personal account of what it means to be disfellowshipped from a high-control religious group, exploring the emotional, social, and psychological toll of excommunication. It follows the lived experience of a woman raised in the Jehovah’s Witness faith, examining how rigid belief systems, purity culture, and patriarchal expectations intersected to shape—and fracture—her early adulthood. Central to her story is the way institutionalized religious practices often prioritize conformity over compassion, especially in cases involving abuse, mental health, and personal trauma.
A central theme of the conversation is the way faith-based institutions enforce roles that render women powerless. In this case, submission, service, and silence were not just cultural expectations—they were codified spiritual requirements. From early marriage to forced confessions of sexual activity, the narrative shows how institutional religion can create cycles of shame, erasure, and trauma, particularly for young women who deviate from the path prescribed for them. Her affair and subsequent mental breakdown are not presented as moral failings, but as inevitable consequences of spiritual repression, marital neglect, and unresolved trauma.
The story also unpacks the cruelty of disfellowshipping—a formal religious process that not only removes someone from the congregation, but also severs their family ties and social support. Despite being a victim of marital abandonment and childhood sexual assault, the protagonist was judged solely on her deviation from dogma, while her husband and abuser remained protected within the faith community. The result was a profound sense of isolation, leading to psychiatric hospitalization and long-term estrangement from her mother and community.
Finally, the episode invites reflection on what healing and identity look like beyond the bounds of organized religion. It offers a cautionary tale about the dangers of blind loyalty to doctrine and the way religious gatekeeping can exacerbate mental health issues. This personal testimony brings visibility to a wider pattern seen in many exvangelical, ex-Mormon, and post-cult survivor communities—where exiting belief often means rebuilding from emotional rubble.
Meet the Expert
Emily Baggin is a survivor, speaker, and lived-experience expert in religious trauma, identity reconstruction, and post-cult recovery. Her insight is invaluable for understanding the hidden costs of coercive religious systems and their long-term psychological impact, especially on women. Emily brings depth, empathy, and honesty to a conversation that challenges spiritual abuse while offering solidarity to those navigating deconstruction.
The Big Idea
The episode explores how disfellowshipping, under the guise of spiritual discipline, functions as a tool of control and emotional exile. Rather than addressing the systemic failings of religious leadership, family dynamics, and abuse culture, high-control faiths often use exclusion as a way to silence dissent and maintain image management. The deeper issue exposed is not just about leaving a religion, but being forcibly removed from one’s entire life network—and the devastating consequences that follow.
Key Takeaways
- Disfellowshipping is not just a religious penalty—it is social death. Individuals are cut off from family, friends, and support systems with little chance for appeal or empathy.
- Religious purity culture creates lifelong shame scripts. Especially for women, sex is weaponized through guilt, silence, and spiritual gatekeeping, causing long-term harm.
- Trauma is often compounded, not healed, by religious institutions. Emily’s experience reveals how abuse, neglect, and mental illness are frequently minimized or punished rather than addressed.
- Confession protocols can be re-traumatizing. Detailed, invasive interviews with male elders about sexual behavior reflect systemic misogyny masquerading as spiritual accountability.
- Post-disfellowshipping recovery requires radical self-reinvention. Healing demands not only therapy but also the rebuilding of identity, community, and purpose outside the framework of religious control.
Tools, Strategies, or Frameworks Mentioned
- Pioneer Status in Jehovah’s Witnesses: A designation for members who commit 90 hours per month to door-to-door evangelism. This metric-driven framework reinforces performance-based worth within the faith.
- Judicial Committee Process: A disciplinary model involving a panel of male elders who conduct in-depth interrogations to assess repentance, often without safeguards for mental health or gender sensitivity.
- Spiritual Gaslighting: A recurring theme in which church leaders and family members dismiss personal trauma by reinterpreting it as spiritual weakness or disobedience.
Final Thoughts
“I will not jeopardize seeing your father again to have a relationship with you.”
This sentence, spoken by Emily’s mother, captures the heartbreak and inhumanity of conditional love based on religious performance. But as this episode makes clear, healing begins where blind obedience ends. Emily’s voice—and stories like hers—help rewrite the narrative for anyone questioning if they’re worthy outside the walls of their church. They are.
Full Transcript
Speaker A 00:00:00.240 - 00:00:06.960 And she got disfellowshipped because he just didn't think that she was serving him. Speaker B 00:00:07.120 - 00:00:08.320 He had an affair on her. Speaker A 00:00:08.320 - 00:00:18.080 He had an affair on her and she got disfellowship. She got kicked out because she wasn't good enough as a wife and wasn't serving him and having sex with him enough, essentially. Speaker B 00:00:22.800 - 00:00:45.270 Hello and welcome to Pissy But Pretty, a show about hindsight, hobby, hope, tangents and cuss words. We are your hosts. Party tricks turn Semi responsible women. I am your host, Heather Cairns and Emily Bagging. Speaker A 00:00:45.270 - 00:00:45.710 Hello. Speaker B 00:00:45.950 - 00:00:56.840 Here we are, Pissy But Pretty, episode four. We've made it. Are we ready for this? Speaker A 00:00:56.840 - 00:00:59.720 Oh, my gosh. I don't know. I don't think so. Speaker B 00:00:59.880 - 00:01:35.330 We did discuss. We missed a whole lot from the last couple episodes that we did. We were going to talk about addiction on this one, but we realized we missed a big part of particularly, particularly, particularly your upbringing and a big part of your religious experience that you had. So we have to go back to being disfellowshipped and all of that. We need to get into that. You ready for that? Speaker A 00:01:35.569 - 00:01:37.650 I think I'm ready. I'm already sweaty. Speaker B 00:01:38.290 - 00:01:39.530 You're always sweaty, though. Speaker A 00:01:39.530 - 00:01:40.970 I'm always sweaty. Yeah. Speaker B 00:01:40.970 - 00:01:41.850 You're a hot box. Speaker A 00:01:41.850 - 00:02:04.700 I'm a hot box. So ended at religion. Married. Jehovah's Witnesses get married very young. You're not supposed to have sex before you're married. So we all do, though. Let's be real. And then whatever, do your thing. Get married. I was engaged, I think within six months of meeting him. I was living on my own. Speaker B 00:02:04.860 - 00:02:05.740 How old were you again? Speaker A 00:02:07.260 - 00:02:12.940 19. I couldn't get married until I was 20. That was the rule. My sister and I couldn't get married until we were 20. Speaker B 00:02:13.180 - 00:02:14.540 I don't know why anyone would want. Speaker A 00:02:14.540 - 00:03:01.660 To, but, I mean, people, you know, kids were getting married at like 17 in that religion, at least back when I was in it. Yeah. And it was a little disturbing. You were children, so this was probably. I was around, I would say like 18, 19. I moved out pretty early with a couple of girls that were a little bit older than I was. We were partying like rock stars, drinking like crazy. I met, you know, my ex husband basically at Summerfest. I had seen him before at like church events and things like that. Beautiful, wonderful. Not gonna say his name. You know, we were babies and it was. He was a drinker and his family were drinkers and all his friends and that's all we did. Speaker B 00:03:01.660 - 00:03:04.820 That's what isn't that interesting? Isn't that frowned upon? Speaker A 00:03:05.780 - 00:03:11.380 Drinking in moderation? Oh, so as you a drinker and me a drinker, moderation. Speaker B 00:03:12.020 - 00:03:12.860 There's no such thing. Speaker A 00:03:12.860 - 00:03:14.020 There's no such thing. What do you mean? Speaker B 00:03:14.020 - 00:03:14.860 We don't even know the meaning. Speaker A 00:03:14.860 - 00:03:18.920 Correct, correct. If I'm alive the next day, I guess that was pretty moderate. That was fun. Speaker B 00:03:18.920 - 00:03:20.000 I mean, sure. Speaker A 00:03:20.080 - 00:03:21.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker B 00:03:21.280 - 00:03:24.000 Even if I woke up with scars on my face. Matter it. Speaker A 00:03:24.000 - 00:03:24.560 Of course. Speaker B 00:03:24.560 - 00:03:25.680 Yeah, yeah. Speaker A 00:03:26.480 - 00:03:32.080 Semen on your mouth and scars on your face. It's gross. So crusty. That's gross. Speaker B 00:03:32.080 - 00:03:32.560 Yeah. Speaker A 00:03:33.680 - 00:04:02.820 At that point, I was working at a cancer clinic. My dad was diagnosed with cancer the first time. So I quit my job, moved back in with my family. My then husband lived in Oconomowoc. So I was between like Jackson, Glendale, like that area. We got married, I moved to Oconomowoc. I got a job where I met Rebecca, who was my first like non witness adult friend, which is how we. Speaker B 00:04:02.820 - 00:04:04.220 Met through Rebecca, which is how we. Speaker A 00:04:04.220 - 00:04:19.510 Met through sweet Rebecca. And yeah, everything went to shit. I was so excited. I was so happy. I had a huge wedding. I think about all said and done, 800 people showed up. We were annihilated. I don't know. Speaker B 00:04:19.510 - 00:04:19.950 800. Speaker A 00:04:19.950 - 00:04:48.750 I didn't either. I didn't either. But it was, you know, his mom and my mom and all of the congregations and it's a big deal. It's like the only thing that they celebrate weddings and funerals, apparently. So it was a mess. It was awful. The marriage was awful. We tried. He needed a mom and I didn't know how to do that. I thought I was getting a partner. I thought I was getting a husband. I thought I was getting something, that my dad was taking care of things. Speaker B 00:04:48.990 - 00:04:59.070 So in the Witness religion, explain it to me. Like, are you. Is there a set role for the women and the men? Speaker A 00:04:59.390 - 00:05:29.980 Yes. Back and granted, this is 20 years ago. I'm sure things have progressed. Hopefully women were in subjection, which means you sort of doted on your husband. Food, dinner, financial sex. If he wanted it, you gave it. And it was your wifely duty. It was your role. You went door to door as much as possible. You logged those hours within the church and you made sure your husband. Speaker B 00:05:29.980 - 00:05:33.340 You had to log the hours in the church of your going door to door. Speaker A 00:05:33.340 - 00:05:34.740 Yeah, it's called going out in service. Speaker B 00:05:34.740 - 00:05:43.280 I would love to know. Worked for your mom. I would love to know how successful that is these days. People don't answer their door for nobody. Everybody got ring cameras. Speaker A 00:05:43.280 - 00:06:17.330 Honestly, in you Know the time that I was there from what, 10 to like, 23. Never. It never stuck. People came and they would meet, you know, people, but they never. I never saw one person get baptized, become a witness, whatever. It's not to say that it's not happening. I don't know. This is my experience, this is my story. I think it was weird. I think it was too friendly, too fake, too funky. And people just kind of walked away after a while. And then they stopped answering their doors because they are persistent. Speaker B 00:06:17.490 - 00:06:27.890 Gosh. So you were a Stepford wife, did the door to door cooking, cleaning, taking care of your husband while drinking, while. Speaker A 00:06:27.890 - 00:06:41.000 Trying to be a party girl. Because that was all I understood. And again, I felt abandoned. I was so lonely. Understand who he was. He didn't understand who I was. We didn't know how to be adults. So I felt let down. Speaker B 00:06:41.000 - 00:06:41.800 You're 20 years old. Speaker A 00:06:41.880 - 00:08:11.040 You don't. You really fucking don't. So again, like, you know, my dad is going through chemo. My sister's, you know, married. I'm thinking that everybody knows about this sexual assault that happened. And I felt just betrayed sort of by all that. Still sort of processing it with just alcohol and partying. And then his cousin moved in with us. He was 19, 18 at the time. We were four years apart. And he stepped into, like, this husband role with me. My husband was downstairs playing video games, literally 24 7, never graduated high school, which is not abnormal for witnesses. They go into the trades. You're supposed to be serving God. You're supposed to be going door to door. So he was in the trades with a family member. If it rained, he didn't work. He was playing video games until sleep. He would still be down there when I would wake up for work. But his cousin came to live with us, and he became my best friend. We would go grocery shopping, we did laundry. We folded the laundry, we cleaned, we hung out. He was introducing me to some of his friends. He was kind of in trouble with the congregation. Smoking weed was his jam. So we started an affair. I fell so deeply, so hard in love with who he was. And it was eating me alive inside. It was eating him alive inside. Speaker B 00:08:11.360 - 00:08:19.520 It had to have felt nice if you're being ignored by who you're married to. I mean, I'm not excusing anything. I don't. You know, wasn't there. Speaker A 00:08:19.600 - 00:08:35.730 There's no excuse for an affair. Like I said, there is no excuse. But try it. Live a life where you feel your only option to get out of the situation you're in is you die or you commit adultery and you get out of that marriage. That's where I was. Speaker B 00:08:37.490 - 00:08:38.370 It's so sad. Speaker A 00:08:38.770 - 00:09:08.150 I was sad. It was sad. It was very sad. We started the affair. I lost my shit. I started self harming. I was scratch myself. My husband found out and took me to the emergency room. I went to the psych ward about seven days. We did partial hospitalization for about a month after that, which is like an eight hour stint of therapies. My mom came, you know, wondering like, what's wrong with you? What's happening? Speaker B 00:09:08.710 - 00:09:23.430 So you quit. You are really good at glazing over it. What brought you into, like, how did that happen? Like, I mean, you don't have an affair and end up in a mental institution. Speaker A 00:09:24.160 - 00:09:26.520 You don't, but I do. Speaker B 00:09:26.520 - 00:09:30.320 I mean, anybody that would have an affair with me would end up in a mental institution. Speaker A 00:09:30.720 - 00:09:31.280 Not me. Speaker B 00:09:31.360 - 00:09:33.440 I'm surprised my husband isn't there. Speaker A 00:09:33.440 - 00:09:34.080 Scissors. Speaker B 00:09:34.240 - 00:09:38.520 Yes. But like, so, I mean, to me. Speaker A 00:09:38.520 - 00:10:13.980 The guilt, the guilt, the guilt, the guilt. You are not supposed to do things like this. Sex is like not really talked about except that it's bad. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. You are not even supposed to like be going on dates alone together. You have to have a chaperone. And you're supposed to be like, all right, here we go. Here's my body, here we are. I'm welcoming you inside of me. And it's just. Especially for girls. I think it's just bonkers. There is no education. There is no like getting ready for that. Speaker B 00:10:14.220 - 00:10:30.240 That's not just witnesses. We as Lutherans too. No education. My parents rented us a cartoon movie from the church library. Did they have full books over with my sisters, it was all different body. Speaker A 00:10:30.240 - 00:10:32.840 Types with full bush from the 70s. Speaker B 00:10:32.840 - 00:10:39.120 Yeah, sure, everybody loves a full bush. And yeah, that's, you know, it was just bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Speaker A 00:10:39.120 - 00:10:39.920 Until you're married. Speaker B 00:10:39.920 - 00:10:42.880 Until all of a sudden it's not. And then you're just supposed to know what to do, right? Speaker A 00:10:42.880 - 00:11:50.680 Yeah, right. And then he has no experience. I had no experience. I didn't know what to do with my body because you're not supposed to know what to do with your body. So it was painful, it was awful. It was bladder infections and we didn't know why. And he was dirty and gross. He worked construction and he just didn't care. He was 20, he was stinky, he was disgusting. So it was horrible. The first sort of experiences with that were pretty bad. And I didn't get it. I Didn't like it. He was awful. That's what I was saying. Just an awful experience. You guys were young, we were young. But then his much younger cousin comes in and has this tenderness and this sense of humor. And the little touches were so exciting. And it was like. That was something I had never felt before. I started having sex with my ex husband two weeks after we met. He was not a virgin. I felt like I should do it, that everybody I knew was doing that. P.S. hello. Or those chaperones. Speaker B 00:11:50.680 - 00:11:51.160 But you're not. Speaker A 00:11:51.160 - 00:11:57.960 How's that working? Because. And it's not talked about. There's no communication, there's no education, there's no nothing. Speaker B 00:11:59.160 - 00:12:08.040 So, yeah, so then the guilt. And you were scratching yourself because hurting. Speaker A 00:12:08.040 - 00:12:59.380 Yourself, it's like cutting. Like hurting yourself just feels better than everything else that's going on inside. I was imploding. I was a mess. I couldn't talk to anybody. I was absolutely gaga over this kid. And likewise. And I felt like I was killing him. I was hurting him. So, yeah, it was probably all said and done about a three or four psychiatric event, three or four month thing. And I remember having the decision at the end of it, do I call him cousin? What do I do? And I did. Because it went right back. My marriage went right back to where it was. He had his family come over and clean our house. I remember we were. We were just filthy. We didn't know how to take care of anything. Speaker B 00:12:59.380 - 00:13:00.100 Yeah, right. Speaker A 00:13:00.820 - 00:13:38.530 So his family came over and cleaned the house and they were all making fun of the size of my clothes and how little I was. And you're so little. And. And I'm like, yeah, how embarrassing. How embarrassing. I'm not taking care of your kid. His mom was very rude to me about that. You're not taking care of my son. Anyway, so I called him. I resumed it. Yeah, I resumed it. He meant everything to me. It was us against the world, our little bubble. And then I admitted it. I told my ex husband that was probably about eight months into the affair. Into the affair. Speaker B 00:13:38.530 - 00:13:46.730 And he had no clue. That's how. If you're living with two people that are having an affair under your roof. Speaker A 00:13:46.730 - 00:13:48.010 Oh, yeah, he lived with us. Speaker B 00:13:48.410 - 00:13:54.170 And you are that. I don't know if it's narcissism or disconnected. Speaker A 00:13:54.330 - 00:13:54.730 Right. Speaker B 00:13:54.890 - 00:13:56.330 That says something right there. Speaker A 00:13:56.650 - 00:14:45.030 Anybody who's been on the other side, like somebody's had, you know, cheated on them, they're always like, oh, you know, well, you can do it. If you want to have an affair, you're Going to have an affair, cheater, always a cheater, blah, blah, blah. It's like, what are you missing? What are you missing? Though I'm sure there was some hindsight moments, there had to have been some red flags. Was there love there? Was there affection, attention, kindness? None. None. And that's why I got away with it. It wasn't like I was hiding all that well. So admitted it. He, you know, called my dad and told him to come get his whore daughter. He called his parents, he called elders from the congregation. He called his brothers and sisters. He was the youngest of five. So he. Speaker B 00:14:45.110 - 00:14:47.070 Because it was their business, they brought. Speaker A 00:14:47.070 - 00:14:51.270 Their spouses and their children. Their children, their children to my house. Speaker B 00:14:51.590 - 00:14:52.710 That's disgusting. Speaker A 00:14:53.030 - 00:15:12.570 He destroyed our home. Just smashing things, punching glass everywhere. It was a disaster. I was a circus freak again. I was just this circus animal. Everybody was just staring at me. And he's just like this gorilla pacing back. He was six, three, mind you, about 250. He was a big dude. Speaker B 00:15:12.570 - 00:15:13.770 Never touched you though, right? Speaker A 00:15:13.770 - 00:15:54.380 No, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Terrifying moment, and then my sister walks in and she's like, get in the bedroom. We have to talk about this. What are you doing staring at everybody? I walked across the glass and into the bedroom. I'm like, I fucked up. I fucked up bad. She's like, you're going home. So I don't even know. I think I just grabbed my dog. And that was it. That was it. We, you know, continued. I continued the affair. He was everything to me. I think that trauma bond, you know, because he, you know, my ex husband called his parents, his aunt and uncle. Speaker B 00:15:54.540 - 00:16:02.560 You know, I'm sure the whole family turned against him as well. And you're both. It really was you against the world. Yeah, it was. Speaker A 00:16:02.560 - 00:16:03.760 It was us against the world. Speaker B 00:16:03.760 - 00:16:04.240 Yeah. Speaker A 00:16:04.400 - 00:16:11.440 My dad's going through cancer this whole time. My sister still doesn't know about the assault or whatever. Speaker B 00:16:11.440 - 00:16:12.520 Even though you think she does. Speaker A 00:16:12.520 - 00:17:05.200 Even though I think she does. So I think, you know, this is wonderful. I go home and I just sit on the couch of my family home and cry. And I'm just like, God, I can't go back there. And I knew then I wasn't gonna go back there. So I decided in the witness, congregation, religion, whatever, you've gotta fess up to what you did. So I meet up with a panel of elders, which is three men I don't know in the congregation and in gross detail, have to explain, describe my affair with this man, where he put it, if he ejaculated, if I put it in my mouth. If I put it in my butt. All of it. All of it. How did you see each other? Where was it? What happened? Did he touch you? Here, here, here, here. Speaker B 00:17:05.200 - 00:17:06.719 And it was just you and me? Speaker A 00:17:06.719 - 00:17:09.440 It was just me and three elders. Speaker B 00:17:09.440 - 00:17:17.680 Let me get this straight, okay? You need a woman nowadays to be in the room with you if you see a male ob. Speaker A 00:17:18.170 - 00:17:18.570 Yep. Speaker B 00:17:19.290 - 00:17:26.890 And here you are, a young woman having to describe sexual positions. Speaker A 00:17:27.050 - 00:17:27.690 Oh, yes. Speaker B 00:17:28.010 - 00:17:33.450 And to three grown men that are probably getting off to it later. Speaker A 00:17:33.530 - 00:17:42.850 Ew. Probably. Probably. But at the time, it was normal. I respected the religion so much. Like, I knew this is what I was supposed to do. Speaker B 00:17:42.850 - 00:17:50.630 I really hope it's not this way anymore. I don't think that is disturbing and disgusting. And I want to save everyone. Right. Speaker A 00:17:51.030 - 00:17:52.430 Well, I mean, you saved me. Speaker B 00:17:52.430 - 00:17:55.390 I'm gonna Leah Remini this. No, I'm fine. Speaker A 00:17:55.390 - 00:17:59.110 I think you should. Where is Miscavige? Where's his wife? Speaker B 00:17:59.270 - 00:17:59.910 Where is she? Speaker A 00:17:59.910 - 00:18:00.710 Where's his wife? Speaker B 00:18:01.190 - 00:18:02.230 That's a whole nother story. Speaker A 00:18:02.230 - 00:18:27.010 That's a whole nother story. So, yeah, I'm describing it in detail. My parents are fully under the belief that I'm not going to be disfellowshipped. You had an affair. But explain your marriage. Talk about how he failed you as a wife and as a partner and as a husband and everything. They can't possibly disfellowship you. They just fellowshiped me. Speaker B 00:18:27.010 - 00:18:32.170 Didn't you say though, that he was like. Him and his family were like, well known. Speaker A 00:18:32.890 - 00:18:41.090 Big family. Big family within the congregation, as was his cousin's family and whatever. Speaker B 00:18:41.090 - 00:18:43.850 And I was the outside dirty. And so there you are. Speaker A 00:18:44.250 - 00:18:49.230 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I did not serve my husband properly. Speaker B 00:18:49.870 - 00:18:52.750 So I got disfellowshaws and I got. Sorry. Speaker A 00:18:52.750 - 00:18:54.270 His stick was so much bigger. Speaker B 00:18:57.870 - 00:18:58.430 Sorry. Speaker A 00:19:00.270 - 00:19:04.070 You're falling apart. Say the D word and things go sideways. Speaker B 00:19:04.070 - 00:19:04.830 Oh, gee. Speaker A 00:19:05.950 - 00:19:25.900 So I got home and I told my mom. I was like, well, I was disfellowshipped. And she. I remember she was standing on the stairs of our house and she's like, I never thought that would happen. And that was it. She shut off all communication, love, kindness. Our relationship was over. You were not supposed to associate. Speaker B 00:19:26.460 - 00:19:26.860 Yep. Speaker A 00:19:26.860 - 00:19:39.110 Decided. Decided I wasn't sorry. I wasn't repentant. That's what it was based on. If you were repentant enough, you wouldn't be disfellowshipped. So. And she's. Speaker B 00:19:39.110 - 00:19:42.350 Yeah. So these three men decided that you no longer. Speaker A 00:19:42.350 - 00:19:43.190 I never met them before. Speaker B 00:19:43.990 - 00:19:47.510 That you had never met before. They don't know you from anybody. Speaker A 00:19:47.670 - 00:19:48.070 No. Speaker B 00:19:48.070 - 00:19:54.950 And they are going to decide how your family is going to treat you for the rest of your life. I am sorry. Speaker A 00:19:55.270 - 00:19:56.630 Big time. Yeah. Isn't that great? Speaker B 00:19:56.630 - 00:19:57.910 It's disgusting. Speaker A 00:19:58.150 - 00:20:32.480 It's a little gnarly. And like, going a little further, you know, into the religion. Like I said, I don't know. I think it's changed now. I've been hearing rumors that. Oh, your mom's allowed to talk to you now. This was back 20 years ago. I was going through the hardest, most brutal thing in my life. I wanted away from that marriage. I didn't want to leave the religion. I wanted away from this man and his family. And then they kick you out. And they're not supposed to associate with you anymore. So everything that I just. Speaker B 00:20:32.480 - 00:20:36.480 Everything you wanted me to do. Told you every dirty detail for. Speaker A 00:20:37.260 - 00:21:03.730 For what? To be kicked out? So you go to the kingdom hall after you're disfellowshipped and people literally, like, stop talking and they stare at you again. Circus freak. They're not allowed to communicate with you. They are not allowed to hug you, console you, tell you things are okay. You're gonna be okay. Nothing. You sit by yourself and you gotta get up and go. You gotta come by yourself. You gotta get up and go. My family wouldn't eat dinner with me because I was dirty. They gave me a tray. Speaker B 00:21:03.730 - 00:21:11.930 What's the forgiveness that God preaches of? Not when you're disfellowshipped because you're not worthy of forgiveness. Speaker A 00:21:11.930 - 00:21:16.010 I guess not. I don't know. Yeah, that was a deep one. Speaker B 00:21:16.090 - 00:21:38.290 He's worthy to stay, even though he. Whether he. You look at it as he failed as a husband or not. Like, why couldn't he clean the house? Why couldn't he get himself off those video games and put some effort into this marriage? But he gets to stay. But you, nobody talks to anymore. Speaker A 00:21:38.290 - 00:21:51.010 There has been situations. Like I said, I do have a friend. Female. She was married for a year. She was what they call a pioneer. Which means she does 90 service hours knocking on doors a month. Yep. That was like her full time job. Speaker B 00:21:51.170 - 00:21:52.240 Wait, 90amonth? Speaker A 00:21:52.380 - 00:22:04.440 90 hours a month? Yep. He had an affair on her and she got disfellowshipped because he just didn't think that she was serving him. Speaker B 00:22:04.600 - 00:22:05.800 He had an affair on her. Speaker A 00:22:05.800 - 00:22:18.920 He had an affair on her and she got disfellowship. She got kicked out because she wasn't good enough as a wife and wasn't serving him. And Having sex with him enough, essentially. I'm sure it's different now. This is my experience. Speaker B 00:22:18.920 - 00:22:24.840 Oh, God. You see all this in the documentaries and all of this and the trauma. Speaker A 00:22:25.080 - 00:22:37.790 Yeah, I'm not gonna change the religion. I'm sure I'm pissing everybody off. But the trauma, I stuck with a lot of witnesses that did get disfellowshipped. After I got kicked out, I moved. Speaker B 00:22:37.790 - 00:22:39.390 To rescue support group. Speaker A 00:22:39.630 - 00:24:25.570 We do, we do. And you know, there's every therapist that I've seen trauma or whatever it happens to be, they see a lot of witnesses. They see a lot of ex witnesses, a lot of suicides, lot of addiction, lot of overdoses. My experience from there, we moved in with each other back way out in Reeseville. Nobody knew really where we were. When I was living at home, I needed to get out of there. My mom and dad made it very clear, you need to go. So my dad just kind of handed me a little wad of cash and he's like, I hear you need a security deposit and rent to get out of here. So I took the money and I got an apartment with the cousin because he was kicked out too. Unfortunately, his trauma was dealt with by drugs. And I didn't like them. I didn't do drugs yet. I just didn't think that that was where my life wanted should go. But it was too much, so whatever. So I was drinking. My dad was dying again. He got re diagnosed. It was in his liver. I was just not in a good place. The cousin again, sort of failed. He didn't know how to be a man. He didn't know how to be with me. And since I had no one, it was like whenever he would leave, I was so devastated. It was like a puppy that just doesn't know what to do when the cousin would leave. That separation anxiety was so brutal. The anxiety and the depression and just feeling so alone. Speaker B 00:24:25.650 - 00:24:45.870 Well, you've been tossed aside by literally everyone, including your own mother, your own father. Like, no wonder. And just the trauma of everything you went through to only be told by your family. Siya, your religion. Sia, your friends. See ya. Speaker A 00:24:45.870 - 00:24:56.590 Everybody. I knew everybody. Because you're not supposed to have friends outside of it, outside of that religion. They call it the truth. You're not supposed to have worldly friends outside of the truth. Speaker B 00:24:56.910 - 00:24:59.150 Worldly friends. Are you? Speaker A 00:24:59.230 - 00:25:02.510 No, I am real worldly. I am. Speaker B 00:25:04.030 - 00:25:12.510 Are people that aren't a witness, I'm assuming. Probably. And to me, worldly means educated. Worldly. I know. Speaker A 00:25:12.510 - 00:25:13.430 In the real world. Speaker B 00:25:13.430 - 00:25:21.480 Interesting. Yeah, well, should we cut it there and then? Cause this I feel like kind of leads into the addiction. Speaker A 00:25:21.800 - 00:25:22.520 Oh for sure. Speaker B 00:25:22.680 - 00:25:40.200 And like we'll get into my addiction stuff. But I'm really glad that we hit on this. Like I think we needed to explain to people how, I mean that disfellowship, Mint. Disfellowship, Disfellowshipping, Shipping. Speaker A 00:25:40.200 - 00:25:40.840 Shipping. Speaker B 00:25:41.240 - 00:25:53.770 How traumatizing it can be and how it can lead into all of the rest of this. I mean not only did you have the sexual assault by your brother in. Speaker A 00:25:53.770 - 00:26:23.150 Law, which was okay. And was glazed over because he said my family was aware of how promiscuous I was. I wore low cut tops. Fuck, I didn't mean to do that. Just seeing the ghiblies, low cut tops. And I wore shorts back then when I was 15, 16. And he said, you family knows that you're promiscuous and you tempted me. He was at this point, you know, married to my sister. Their divorce, whatever. Speaker B 00:26:23.150 - 00:26:32.150 Wait, hold on. So he went to the church and told them all this or you told them this or how did he told. Speaker A 00:26:32.230 - 00:27:03.950 Me that he talked to my family, my sister and my mom and dad and that was as far as it went. And said I was tempted by your daughter and I acted on that and they agreed that I am promiscuous. And they believed that. Yeah, she can be like that. We understand that you committed fourth degree sexual assault upon our 15 year old daughter. And we're not going to talk about it. We forgive you, we're not going to talk about this again. Was the story he told me being a parent. Speaker B 00:27:04.590 - 00:27:07.150 Oh, can you imagine? Speaker A 00:27:07.310 - 00:27:08.670 My parents didn't know. Speaker B 00:27:09.040 - 00:27:12.480 Oh, they really didn't know. He just told you this? No. Okay. Speaker A 00:27:12.480 - 00:27:15.840 I found out that. Oh my gosh, there's so much happening in my life. Speaker B 00:27:16.240 - 00:27:17.280 You're a hot mess. Speaker A 00:27:17.520 - 00:27:34.520 I'm a hot fucking mess. So my sister came to visit me when I was, I think I was already having an affair. She came to visit me at my house and my ex husband's house and I made some sort of joke about her husband touching me or Molester, Chester the Molester. And was sort of like, she was like, oh. Speaker B 00:27:34.520 - 00:27:35.680 And this was how many years later. Speaker A 00:27:37.410 - 00:27:40.290 I was 20s and it happened when I was like 15. Speaker B 00:27:40.530 - 00:27:41.170 Okay. Speaker A 00:27:41.330 - 00:28:19.250 So substantial amount of years, whatever. And she was like oh, I'm sorry, wait, what? And I told her what happened and she didn't know. My parents didn't know. She went home, told my mom and dad, she collapsed on the floor and oh my God, this Is the worst thing. And my dad was upset. He's ruining our family. They went and talked to the guy and he goes, I don't remember that. And I remember a phone call after that, and she said, he doesn't remember. And I believe him. That was it. Speaker B 00:28:20.130 - 00:28:24.850 Never got spoken about again. He doesn't remember. Speaker A 00:28:25.170 - 00:28:26.130 He doesn't remember. Speaker B 00:28:26.130 - 00:28:28.050 And your parents accepted that. Speaker A 00:28:31.020 - 00:28:37.100 Because Emily's promiscuous. Emily's a mess. So then, you know, when I cheated and whatever, I was just like, meh. All right. Speaker B 00:28:37.340 - 00:28:42.060 Since I am this. Yeah, I'll show y' all. I'll show y' all. Speaker A 00:28:42.060 - 00:28:43.660 I did. I sure did. Speaker B 00:28:44.780 - 00:28:49.420 I mean, literally. This is why you live under my under teeth. Speaker A 00:28:49.820 - 00:28:52.220 You have. Why do you think I don't like people? Speaker B 00:28:52.460 - 00:28:54.780 You're small enough to be there. First of all. Speaker A 00:28:55.020 - 00:28:56.140 I'm so comfortable. Speaker B 00:28:57.340 - 00:28:59.450 So destroyed. Speaker A 00:28:59.610 - 00:29:00.410 Wow. Right. Speaker B 00:29:00.490 - 00:29:06.010 By the people that are supposed to care for you most. This is what makes you a good mother. Speaker A 00:29:07.210 - 00:29:08.090 Unbelievable. Speaker B 00:29:08.490 - 00:29:10.890 And my very best friend in the entire world. Speaker A 00:29:11.050 - 00:29:11.610 Thank you. Speaker B 00:29:11.610 - 00:29:38.060 I mean, and you're welcome. This doesn't. Isn't why. I mean, going through all of that isn't why. You're my very best friend. But you being the person you are now after all of that, that's why the one time I met your mother, the one time she. Because she still speaks to your sister. Even though your sister divorced each other. Your sister divorced that her first husband. Speaker A 00:29:38.060 - 00:29:39.380 Yes, she did. She did. Speaker B 00:29:39.860 - 00:29:44.900 Lives under the same roof. They're in a duplex, but under the same roof. Speaker A 00:29:44.900 - 00:29:50.340 My dad bought them a duplex. My mom and my sister, before he died. Yeah, I think that's very telling. Speaker B 00:29:50.770 - 00:29:51.490 Very telling. Speaker A 00:29:51.490 - 00:29:52.530 You gotta be telling. Speaker B 00:29:52.530 - 00:29:56.130 And she is not a Witness anymore. Speaker A 00:29:56.130 - 00:29:56.530 No. Speaker B 00:29:56.770 - 00:30:00.050 But your mom still talks to her a little. Speaker A 00:30:00.130 - 00:30:03.890 Yeah. My sister did not get disfellowship. She left. Speaker B 00:30:04.210 - 00:30:05.250 That makes the difference. Speaker A 00:30:06.130 - 00:30:09.650 Unfortunately, to them it does. And 20 years ago, it did. Speaker B 00:30:10.050 - 00:30:23.350 Explain, because I know. You had told me too. I'll get back on that. But you had told me too. Mom has to keep up with all of this because she believes she's going to see your dad who had passed now. Speaker A 00:30:23.750 - 00:30:42.150 Right. That leads again into addiction. And the decision. I don't know that people make a decision to be. And I apologize for this term, a junkie or become addicted. I did. When my dad died, I went, that's. Speaker B 00:30:42.470 - 00:30:46.470 And so she thinks that if she follows the word Jehovah to a T. Speaker A 00:30:46.790 - 00:30:56.050 They believe in armor. Getting rid of all the bad things and a resurrection of our dead loved ones, including my father. Speaker B 00:30:56.290 - 00:30:59.570 See him Again, one day, because she cut you out of her life. Speaker A 00:30:59.650 - 00:31:12.450 She said, I will not jeopardize seeing your father again to have a relationship with you. You chose this, Emily. You chose to leave. I didn't. So it's my fault? Speaker B 00:31:12.610 - 00:31:58.110 Yeah. Again. So then when your mom brought in her granddaughter, your niece, to the hair salon, I loved saying, oh, my gosh, I'm Emily's best friend. It's so nice to meet you. Not really. But I made sure to let her know just how the amazing woman that you are and how amazing your kids are. And at that time, your youngest, Shila, my fairy goddaughter, was a baby. And I'm like, she's the most amazing baby. She's funny. She takes after Emily. You probably wouldn't know that, but Emily's really funny, too. Speaker A 00:31:59.950 - 00:32:00.750 Hilarious. Speaker B 00:32:00.910 - 00:32:11.270 And Jonah is so smart, and he's the same age as my son, and they're so great. And I mean, like, you need to know, you are missing out. Speaker A 00:32:11.270 - 00:32:12.070 What was our comment? Speaker B 00:32:12.070 - 00:32:13.310 You created this woman. Speaker A 00:32:13.710 - 00:32:13.950 Yeah. Speaker B 00:32:13.950 - 00:32:26.590 Oh, she just, like, when I was going on and on about the grandkids that she had never met, she said, well, I wouldn't. I wouldn't know. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's too bad for you. Speaker A 00:32:26.670 - 00:32:27.470 Sex for you. Speaker B 00:32:27.470 - 00:32:27.990 Yeah. Speaker A 00:32:27.990 - 00:32:28.790 You're missing out. Speaker B 00:32:28.790 - 00:32:29.110 Yeah. Speaker A 00:32:29.110 - 00:32:30.750 You're actually missing out on a lot of things. Speaker B 00:32:30.750 - 00:32:36.590 So. But, yeah, I kept it profesh, but still had to give her a little zinger. Speaker A 00:32:36.590 - 00:32:39.390 Patty. Yeah, sometimes he got a zing. Patty. Speaker B 00:32:40.110 - 00:32:46.470 I don't really know. Okay, anywho, so let's roll this up here. Speaker A 00:32:46.630 - 00:32:47.110 Yes. Speaker B 00:32:47.110 - 00:32:53.430 Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Not roll it. Okay. There I go again. Yep. Speaker A 00:32:53.590 - 00:32:54.870 Falling apart. Okay. Speaker B 00:32:54.870 - 00:32:55.830 Batteries fell out. Speaker A 00:32:55.830 - 00:32:56.390 Shit. Speaker B 00:32:56.950 - 00:33:04.230 So, yeah. On the next episode of Pissy but Pretty. Pissy But Pretty, we'll get into the addiction. Speaker A 00:33:04.470 - 00:33:13.250 Yep. And when I started, why I started, what happened, and the journey of drug and alcohol abuse. Speaker B 00:33:13.490 - 00:33:20.050 Yeah. And we'll talk about all the different types of addictions that both of us have experienced throughout our. Speaker A 00:33:20.130 - 00:33:21.730 We had to try all of them. Speaker B 00:33:21.970 - 00:33:23.570 We are overachievers. Speaker A 00:33:23.730 - 00:33:25.570 Thank you, and you're welcome. Speaker B 00:33:25.970 - 00:33:26.610 Good night. Speaker A 00:33:26.690 - 00:33:57.850 Good night. Thanks for letting us tickle your ear hole and not turning us off after the first 30 seconds. 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